[Prodigy9]

I think this has the potential to be a good compromise with 2 changes.

1) If you set home in a country-owned realm, you automatically opt in. If you don't want to be part of the country system, set home in a non-par realm.

2) Your base tax rate should be higher if you are not opting in. A minimum of 10% but maybe as high as 15%.

Just my $.02

I'm not convinced that opting out would be feasible with #1--given how inexpensive it is to attack public realms or undefended private realms, large factions can and probably will take over VERY large areas of the map. #2 would be a good option, though, for either an opt-in or opt-out system. A higher tax rate for non-participants (even if it's only as high as the old, pre-country tax rate of 10%) would provide a benefit for players who choose to join a country--the apparent lack of benefits to joining is one thing that was brought up in the official suggestions thread.

I think the taxes give it a more of a real life feel. They always say, the two things inevitable in life are death and taxes.

The major disadvantage of an opt-in feature is that ALMOST EVERYONE will remain opt out, making the fun and unique country system useless and practically non-existent.

I think it might be exaggerating to say that it would be "practically non-existent" as an opt-in system, but it would substantially reduce the number of players who participate... that's a problem which I overlooked in the first post of the thread Maybe the problem could be avoided with Falconis's idea:

My suggestion, similar to this one, is to claim "soverign nation" status. By declaring this, you are separating yours realms from the country system, and no one can overtake you... but likewise you cannot overtake anyone else!

This would keep it as an opt-out system... in principle that would be totally different from my original proposal, but in practice I think it would actually be pretty similar, because players who don't want to participate have a guaranteed way to stay out of the system (as opposed to the current system, which could require frequent moves to stay ahead of advancing country borders). The only problem is that we could have a situation where a sovereign nation (opted-out player) wants to buy a public realm controlled by a country--if the realm is removed from the country's control, that runs the risk of making the country discontinuous, which apparently isn't allowed.


Thanks for the all the ideas, guys--I'm liking a lot of what I'm reading, so I'm confident that our community and our admins will be able to find a way to make the country system both fun for its supporters and tolerable for its opponents.

[Laserminer]

Common concerns about the country system--large alliances will conquer the entire map,

I assume by this you imply that realms owned by non-participants cannot be conquered? You didn't say that specifically, but as long as this comes with the idea I'm for it.

[Prodigy9]

Common concerns about the country system--large alliances will conquer the entire map,

I assume by this you imply that realms owned by non-participants cannot be conquered? You didn't say that specifically, but as long as this comes with the idea I'm for it.

It's similar to that.

Long version:
I played around with the idea that non-participants' realms could not be conquered, but that raises the somewhat difficult issue of what to do when a non-participant purchases a realm under the control of the country. If the realm remained under the control of the country, then the non-participant could not make full use of his new realm (i.e. cannot /sethome in it without becoming part of the country). But if the realm is liberated from control of the country, then there could potentially be a situation where a country is cut in half (and apparently there's a requirement that countries be continuous--you cannot add a realm onto your country unless its adjacent to the rest of the country).
As a way around the issue, I came up with the idea that non-participants are simply given a special exemption from the normal procedure of joining a realm. So countries could technically conquer your realm if you're a non-participant, but you would not be affected by this (you keep your non-participant status, you don't pay taxes to the country, etc) unless you later became a participant. In other words, you could /sethome in your realms without becoming a citizen (but if someone else does /sethome in your realm which is under a country's control, then they become a citizen--they do not receive the special exemption since they were not the realm owner).

Short version:
The main issue here is what would happen if a non-participant purchases a realm that's under a control of a country. I couldn't think of a really good way to directly solve the problem, so I came up with the idea of making non-participating realm owners exempt instead; any better ideas to address the issue would certainly be welcome.

[hvrock13]

Simple: if you opt out, you must find a free realm in the wilderness that is not part of a country and set home there. It's a downside, but worth it if you want to stay out of this system.

[Prodigy9]

Simple: if you opt out, you must find a free realm in the wilderness that is not part of a country and set home there. It's a downside, but worth it if you want to stay out of this system.

It's fair to point out that there is technically an opting-out strategy in the current system, but I don't think that will remain an option once large countries start expanding.

One of the concerns I was trying to address with this proposal is that large countries could quickly take over much of the map, including areas that are currently wilderness. Unlike the far-fetched possibility of groups trying to buy all the realms at a cost of 10,000 creds per realm, it is quite feasible that they could have countries conquer much of the 40,000-realm map at a cost of just 1 cred per realm for realms that are not part of a country. Although this may not be a sustainable strategy for one individual country (since a rival could then take over at a cost of only 2 creds per realm), the overall effect is that most of the map will eventually be controlled by some country.

[hvrock13]

Oh no I wasn't defending the countries system. I hate it. But I think that the only way an opt-in system would work is if those that don't opt-in would have to find a realm elsewhere where no countries have taken over, and when they buy that realm it would be protected from being taken over. Since buying a realm that is under a unified country is basically submitting to the country system.

[CirJohn]

I think the only reason people dislike the country system is due to a fear of oppressors and exploitive players. I have two responses to this:

1) Not every country is oppresive. The Findale Empire is a functioning tax shelter, lowering all member's tax rates to 5% permanently. We let you keep more money. Due to this, Findale has already been invited to "conquer" realms all over the map.

2) If you're tired of the exploitive players, this is the best chance you've ever gotten to ruin them. Get together with like-minded individuals and make a bankroll you can use to destroy their countries. Every credit you attack them with destroys just as many of their credits. If you can get a large group to work together, you can easily earn credits fast enough to beggar anyone.

But now you ask: how does this help us? Well here's how: once you own their /sethomes, raise your tax to the max. They'll have three option: move, give up, or lose all their creds fighting you're larger group.

Take countries for what they are, a chance to keep your credits or take away someone elses.

PS: If you think a maxed out sales tax will hurt your income, you waste too much time in trade. Go diggy diggy!

[Soul K]

I do not like it how NTC came to my realms and made them, " NTC" country. I don't like the whole country system and don't want to be apart of it. So I would like a /join country command.

^This

While i didnt mind being apart of Canada, I do not want to be apart of the factions.. i asked them not to come to my realms, they said they wouldnt, and 5 minutes later BAM im apart of NTC... Either the taking over of realms needs to be tweaked abit or idk.. give the realm owners a say in this too, rather than the power hungry/Wealthy Country leaders.

This.

I have a feeling I'll be annexed by Australia some time soon, and I don't like it.

This is what its going to be like for alot of players that dont have that option.

[vsniney]

Honestly I don't see what the big deal is. Dig/Build! I by far make the majority of my credits that way.

[Suikadesu]

Nobody will ever tax me, You won't find my /home. Nor do i ever trade. :d