[Bonejunky]

Sgushgush

Or we could just not worry about money and live free of the societal constraint that dictates that we all must strive for monetary success and material wealth.

[TechnoProdigy]

Sgushgush

Or we could just not worry about money and live free of the societal constraint that dictates that we all must strive for monetary success and material wealth.

So what do you suggest we replace money with? Anything people have ever thought of replacing money with would basically just wind up becoming the new "money". There is nothing inherently wrong with a money system.

Personally, I love material wealth and money.

[Bonejunky]

Sgushgush

Or we could just not worry about money and live free of the societal constraint that dictates that we all must strive for monetary success and material wealth.

So what do you suggest we replace money with? Anything people have ever thought of replacing money with would basically just wind up becoming the new "money". There is nothing inherently wrong with a money system.

Personally, I love material wealth and money.

I couldn't tell ya. I might have an interesting ideology, but I only know what exists. I cannot create a new system because of my familiarity with the current system. This would be the reason why the replacement of money would become money itself. And even if we were to replace money in a way that this wouldn't happen, there would have to be many laws put in place to protect against over population, secure environmental well being, and conserve resources for the longest amount of time because the new construct would be a completely 'free' society where humanity would prosper too much. These restrictions would obviously be very unpopular with the current society and therefore any great change that would result in a more fair resource distribution system/better alternative to capitalism while retaining some measure of integrity in the ruling classes is completely improbable, if not impossible.

As to your personal belief in loving material wealth and money, I cannot tell you that you are wrong because it would go against my own belief in tolerance for other ways of thinking besides mine. However, I can attempt to make you understand my perspective. I do not believe in material wealth and money because in the end it is completely useless. Your bank account will not go with you into any afterlife that there may be, and more importantly, if you live to make money rather than memories, you will die with regrets. In my opinion, one should live so that they have no regrets in the end. When I see someone who lives solely for fame or fortune although the odds are stacked high against them I have a certain respect for the individual, but I know that when they die they will have more regrets than they know what to do with and it is, quite simply put, sad.

[dlgn]

Well, to be fair, we live, sadly, in a society where it is practically necessary to have money to live. That said, I see your point. However, it's an entirely theoretical problem and could be applied to any number of different situations.

[Grelman]

I don't pretend to know much about money or philosophy, but I like to think myself a practical sort. The very fact that we're able to have a conversation fantasizing about perfect societies through this digital medium is proof that we're doing something right. I don't wish to stomp on your dreams, but personally I've never felt justified dreaming about how the world could be perfect when billions of hard working humans go toil everyday just to make sure it doesnt get worse than it is already. Don't confuse my words as a feeling of superiority, I wish I could be a more idealistic person, I'd probably be a lot happier.

Also Bone, I think it's odd that you say that people who chase financial success must not have very many memorable experiences. It just seems to me that someone like Donald Trump would have quite a few more interesting stories to tell then someone who happily spends most of their time hanging out with friends/ going to parties. Not that I'd be able to offer my experience with either lifestyle. I'm probably never going to live my life with a big emphasis on money, but I'll never be able to convince myself that it's useless or that I don't need it. That said, I think its bizarre to justify not caring about money with the theoretical existence of an afterlife before you've addressed more pressing problems with your day to day life.

[Bonejunky]

I see your point about people working to maintain the world. However, should we not be working to make it better rather than keeping it the way it is?

And as for your Donald Trump point, I'm sure he has many great memories. But what about the millions, if not billions who work hard every day in the name of success who will ultimately die virtually penniless, without friends, and with most of their memories consisting of working? The reality of this world is that very few people actually achieve fame or fortune and these people waste their lives by working towards it because they do not achieve their goals.

[MindlessInsanity]

I see your point about people working to maintain the world. However, should we not be working to make it better rather than keeping it the way it is?

And as for your Donald Trump point, I'm sure he has many great memories. But what about the millions, if not billions who work hard every day in the name of success who will ultimately die virtually penniless, without friends, and with most of their memories consisting of working? The reality of this world is that very few people actually achieve fame or fortune and these people waste their lives by working towards it because they do not achieve their goals.

That's deep man.

[Grelman]

It's definitely noble to think about ways to improve our world, but change is never widespread, universal, or quick. It takes time to reform the world in the most incremental of ways, and dreaming about a perfect world where you first have to take out the fundamentals for society, such as money, seems like a moot point because it will never occur. People much smarter than us have discussed ways to achieve utopia for ages and we're not much closer to it now than we were several hundred years ago. We can feel encouraged that we aren't executing people on a whim, persecuting people in as many places because of their differences, or even being afraid to express our opinions. However, as depressing as it may seem, there's no way to remove all conflict from the lives of humans especially on a universal level. If it's not about inequality or disparity its something else.

As for the many who die poor, even though they've worked their whole lives to achieve success. Yes, in life you will ALWAYS have winners and losers, and there will ALWAYS be many more losers than winners from the economic standpoint, but its the skills/choices of the individual that make them. I don't think there are as many people as you propose who not only go through life poor but also completely alone. If I wasn't any good at making money I would dedicate more time to making sure I at least had richness in friendship, but by no means could I justify not working for a living. If I was good at money making, but found myself alone, I would set aside more time for getting at least a few close friends. Naturally, and I think we can agree, it's wrong to chase success and forget about our social lives, even if we achieve wealth. But equally, and I suppose this is where we differ most, it's wrong to believe that money is or should be pointless and dedicate all our energies to a successful social life alone. In the end it is our choices and how they appeal to our goals that define how content we are with our existences. There will be people who place too much importance on financial success when they aren't good at it, and if they do end up friendless as a result then they have made poor choices, but I don't think those people represent millions and certainly not billions of our population.

[Eetrab]

Money is the best way to balance social cooperation and selfishness that we all have. Unless everyone works for the greater good of humanity, a bartering or monetary system is the best way is the best way to get the most production out of the least number of people.

[dlgn]

Honestly, even your typical socialist (not democratic socialist, but actual socialist) isn't entirely against the concept of money, just the way it works now. Nothing wrong with putting in some extra work for extra luxuries as long as everyone gets what they need and a bit of what they want.