[Jeff_K_2000]

Hitting your kids is harmful and makes behavior worse long-term. Since it's psychologically traumatic, it falls under the label of abuse.

Yelling doesn't work either, and is also harmful. Since it's psychologically traumatic (as I know from personal experience), it falls under the label of abuse.


To quote Vicki Hoefle, mother of six and the author of Duct Tape Parenting, “Discipline implies setting limits and boundaries. But the way we do it is, ‘I’m going to punish you when you do something I don’t like.’ It’s a completely wasted moment.”

Wow, I couldn't completely disagree with you more....

Hmm, well, as a child yelled at and spanked for wrongdoings, I'm certainly not behaving worse than I was at the time. Hell, I say NOT doing that makes your kids spoiled little brats who refuse to listen to authoritahbecause they have no power behind it. I have personal experience and see this all around me in my family and friends. The ones who were punished physically are always better-behaved than those not.

I can not agree more. Also on the matter, Americas laws are bullcrap. I still believe pysical disipline is ok, but to a certain extent. Let me explain in furthere detail say your'e at school and you shine a laser pointer around to tick off a teacher. Getting a peice of dang, excuse me but PAPER"??? It's just a sheet saying you've done bad in the eyes of the school. Now if you were to be smacked or something like that, this has some advantages. You'll know to behave to stop being annoying. And later on getting hurt won't be as bad due to tolerence build up. Now I thought over it and I know this can lead up to a build up of rage but you have to balance the goods with the bads. I guess what I'm saying is that I wish children by their parents were disiplined and school wouldn't teach us to be wusses. Let me explain soemthing to you. MY school havin 0 tolerence for violence. You can't defend yourself, which is dang stupid because you'll get in trouble anyways "we didn't know who started the fight!" If anyone out there is getting bullied. Not too common of a problem at my school though considering like I said, everyone's a wuss and barely even wants to touch another. Gosh I'm disgusted.

[dlgn]

That's right. Completely ignore the actual evidence because it contradicts your harmful view. Nice one. This isn't Reddit, guys. I expected better.

[smoky1930]

That's right. Completely ignore the actual evidence because it contradicts your harmful view. Nice one. This isn't Reddit, guys. I expected better.

I thought personal experience was evidence?

[Bu1ld0g]

That's right. Completely ignore the actual evidence because it contradicts your harmful view. Nice one. This isn't Reddit, guys. I expected better.

I'm speaking from actual experience.....

Your'e also detracting from the OP.
Typical of you to pick up on the one comment I made and ignore the rest of the post about spending time with my kids....

[dlgn]

Your experience adds up to one statistic, Bu1l. These studies have many more. If you want to get technical here, you're committing a Hasty Generalization Fallacy. Furthermore...I know this may be upsetting, but it's hard to tell what causes what in cases like these, especially with kids; you could be missing signs, or mistaking behavior for another cause. It doesn't mean that you hate your kids. It just means that you could be making mistakes, and important ones.

That's why we have studies like these: they're objective and large enough that we can trust them to be accurate both in terms of detecting general trends, and in terms of determining the causes of behavior.

[Bu1ld0g]

How about we get back to the OP Deel?

And FYI I was referring to me being disciplined as a child ya big plank...

[Eetrab]

Does anyone else smell smoke in the distance?

[Ratta237]

I'm going to put my two cents into this debate before this thread gets locked.

/startrant

I don't support the spanking of children but I do support children being yelled at.
I've been yelled at several times in my childhood but I know I'd only get yelled at if I done something pretty bad and yes being yelled at made me sad but it also propelled me.
My parents yelling at me made me want to do more of the things that made them happy, that's the point I'm trying to get across.

And I do believe that in this day and age children aren't getting enough punishment for their actions and believe they can do whatever the hell they want and won't have any consequences.
Over in Australia we have a large binge drinking problem mostly with 18-25 year olds.
Is this a result of slack parenting? Maybe, maybe not.
There has to be something to stop children thinking they have free rein on the world.

/endrant

[Seratias]

Speaking as a "no good young'un", I can verify that most people misuse the tech they have to be unsocial. I personally don't use my iphone much, I don't have any games on it and use it more as a phone, train trip planner, and mail checker than anything else, really. As such, I'm quite safe from the accusations this video makes. However, it makes me sad to see many other people get sucked into this vortex.

The video does manage to really bring home the point that all the opportunities you miss, you'll never have again, and that really struck a chord. I'm sad now... GEE, THANKS TEEJAY! (Sarcasm test: complete)

I'm going to put my two cents into this debate before this thread gets locked.

/startrant

I don't support the spanking of children but I do support children being yelled at.
I've been yelled at several times in my childhood but I know I'd only get yelled at if I done something pretty bad and yes being yelled at made me sad but it also propelled me.
My parents yelling at me made me want to do more of the things that made them happy, that's the point I'm trying to get across.

And I do believe that in this day and age children aren't getting enough punishment for their actions and believe they can do whatever the hell they want and won't have any consequences.
Over in Australia we have a large binge drinking problem mostly with 18-25 year olds.
Is this a result of slack parenting? Maybe, maybe not.
There has to be something to stop children thinking they have free rein on the world.

/endrant

Couldn't agree more, Ratta.

Does anyone else smell smoke in the distance?

Mhm, I can barely breathe now from all the firewood that's been loaded on. *cough cough* Anyways, I'm gonna jump out of this fire before it gets too hot. Abandon thread!

[Tal]

That's right. Completely ignore the actual evidence because it contradicts your harmful view. Nice one. This isn't Reddit, guys. I expected better.

Indeed. Let us examine the evidence to come to our conclusion.

First, we should look at the body of evidence arguing that spanking is harmful to long term outcomes. The vast majority of these studies fail to distinguish between spanking and other forms of physical contact, such as punching or kicking. These are generally performed in different circumstances, and by lumping them together, the studies introduce severe methodological flaws into their analysis. One meta-analysis found that approximately 65% of these studies use overly broad definitions of corporal punishment. One of the people in the research you cited, Gershoff, places spanking and beating with a stick in the same category for the purpose of her analysis. In other studies, they fail to properly separate out categories of corporal punishment. It is not uncommon for studies to place people who have been spanked in the same category as those who have undergone severe physical abuse.

Additionally, there are frequent flaws of asserting causal linkages between the correlations that are frequently identified. It is just as easy to say that aggressive behavior in the children causes increased corporal punishment as it is to assert that the aggressive behavior rises out of the corporal punishment.

You can review a discussion of some of the flaws in current research here.

In another meta-analysis of the data, by controlling for pre-existing differences in the study selection, the results of the studies included was minimized to be not statistically significant. Very trivial correlations were seen in some age groups, but these are at the level that other known confounding factors that were not accounted for could easily account for them. The article finds that many of the conclusions espoused by the anti-spanking advocates over generalize from the data and greatly exaggerate the conclusiveness of their results.

In yet another study, that examined the effect of spanking on antisocial behaviors, the negative correlation was found to be a statistical artifact known as residual confounding. It concludes "the present study suggests that the strongest causal evidence against non-abusive spanking relies on methods that are inadequate for supporting a general prohibition against spanking or for identifying alternative disciplinary tactics that parents should use instead."

Finally, I would like to conclude with this study, which to date is the only published longitudinal study of aggression outcomes that controlled for pre-existing differences and measured outcomes through a source other than parental self-reporting. The study found that there was no evidence to support claims that spanking fosters aggression in general, and that there was evidence that it reduced aggression in children aged 4-7. The only age group that showed a small increase in aggression was in 8-11 year olds.

So, I would like to think I have adequately demonstrated that this is an area of active debate in scientific literature, and that there is no single conclusion that can be definitively made. The common article that makes claims about how spanking will result in children being aggressive and developmentally delayed are mostly articles by journalists who have only read the press release about the studies, and are focused on only the most sensationalized of results.