Post any ideas / suggestions for the game servers here.
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By panthers17nfl
#2104
With the addition of realms, our server has taken a turn into the direction of organization and unity. This makes it especially interesting to add the concept of war and peace into the equation.

Commenting On Ideas I Hear Alot
First off, I want to define a term for you that many game programmers look in to. It's called a Fun Anti-Pattern. What this means is that a concept or feature is programmed into the game that specifically removes fun from something, thus creating anti-fun. Here are some Fun Anti-Patterns that I've heard tossed around.
War Tax: I don't know who founded this concept, but the idea has been thrown at me multiple times to include some sort of tax that players in a war have to undergo. While I agree that this would limit the amount of spam-alicious wars that occur, it would also take fun away from the concept we plugged in specifically to have fun. It would mean that players have to sacrifice something to have fun, which limits how exciting it actually is. While some people might laugh at first and say "haha, a war tax, it's almost like real war!" But then eventually it would evolve into "Okay, this is dumb, they are paying me to do something that is supposed to be fun. forget this."
Making Wars Fair: I see absolutely zero reason to make a war even between a 3 man realm and a 10 man realm. Tenacity shouldn't exist in war, it shouldn't be equal: there should be realms that are stronger than the others. It is a Fun Anti-Pattern to say that "Okay, regardless of how big and committed your realm is, you are still just as powerful as that 2 man realm over there".

Below is the requested War Contract System
An alternative that is "intelli-programming-friendly" to the Realm Wars system is a concept that was tossed around by other fellow game moderators/admins (specifically jdankk) wherein players take the details of war to the forums rather than taking time to program a plugin to perform a similar function. I must admit that I am in strong opposition to this as opposed to the Realm War System, but I recognize that it is a much more practical concept for war and may be a very good starting point, but I would enjoy seeing officialized plugins later on.

The War System Goes Like This:

A realm decides it wishes to wage war against another. It drafts up a war contract that is posted in a specified section of the forums (if it doesn't fit the EXACT outline I detail later, it is a deleted and illicit thread, got to keep organization you know). The other side's realm leaders observe this contract and try to decide whether or not to engage in it. We don't control their government: If their realm leaders are a democracy, then majority vote decides the decision towards the war. If it's a dictatorship, then yeah. You get the idea, you decide how to agree on wars. It also makes for some nice political drama 00.
If the decision affirms the war: the war is conducted as outlined in the contract.
If the decision negates the war: the offensive side may force the war (see later) or surrender their declaration. Additionally, the defending side may choose to restructure the details of the war and send it back to the offenders. If they disagree with the restructure, the war is dissolved. If they agree, the new structure then undergoes.

What the contract looks like
Realm Name: Your realm's name
Realm Leaders: Your realm leaders (as listed in the rankings)
Designated Realm General: Realm member that you assign as the leader of your military spearhead
(Other Designated Important Officials): Other realm members that are important to mention as official officers
Code of Conduct: Where fighting may occur. Ex: Wilderness only, in each other's cities, etc.
Methods of Destruction: How fighting may occur. Ex: PvP only, bucket destruction, total destruction, looting, etc.
Spoils of War/ Spoils Request (SR): What you want if you, the offending side, are victorious in the war. Tagging (SR) in your demands designates that you are willing to have the enemy realm pay these demands in order to avoid the war. Sending further threatening IRS letters to your enemy realm is not smiled upon and may lead to punishment, whether in-game or bans (I don't know how severe we want to take recurring threats, maybe we don't want to do anything at all, but I don't know.)

Replying to the War Contract
The defending side of the contract may reply to the war contract with their draft, outlining in red what they have made different. The offense then confirms or declines this contract, decline meaning that the entire war proposal is terminated, or confirmed that the war begin as outlined.

The defending side may, instead of create their own draft, confirm completely to the first draft and then have the war begin as outlined, or completely deny it. The only disadvantage to complete denial is the offense's ability to perform War [FORCED], and so it may be more desirable to instead create a draft of the contract that is more in your favor.

Surrendering
Surrendering is always allowed. At any time, the defending side may surrender to the offensive side. HOWEVER: They are required to pay the demanded spoils of war. NOTE: Only the designated military General of your realm may decide to surrender to the opposing side, so appoint someone who is responsible. If the general is away from the server for an extended period of time, realm leaders may instead make the decision.

War [CONTRACT]: What I just outlined for you :).
War [FORCED]: When the defending side declines a war declaration, the offending side may turn the contract into a War [FORCED]. The difference between the two is that a War [FORCED] cannot be declined by the defending side. Additionally, the spoils of war outlined by the initial war contract are reduced to 0% of what they would have been. I will track all ongoing wars as to get a political viewpoint of our world at war :). Also note: War [FORCED] may only be used if the defending side responds absolute negative to a war declaration. If they counter-propose details of the war, you cannot force your original intent.

Atop the spoils being reduced to 0%, Methods of Destruction that involved destruction of realm property, looting, anything that isn't simple PvP, are ignored. The MoD is set to Simple PvP Only.

How defeat is determined:
Let's think about real war for a second. When it comes down to it: It's either surrendering, or total annihilation. There is no "time limit", but I suppose if realms want to make wars safe this way they can do so.

Other spoils / penalties of war:
If the offending side loses the war (they surrender or get destroyed themselves), they must pay the very same spoils of war that they demanding of the defending side.

If the defending side wins, well, they get that ^. In a war [FORCED], the defending side receives what the offending side initially demanded, so there is still hope for defense in a war [FORCED]! :D

I will be adding more stuff later. Also, check out the flowchart I added if you're confused.

Aftermath of war:
The general or any realm leader of the winning faction MUST post a reply in your war contract thread that they were victorious. 24 Hours from THIS post, you are allowed to declare another war contract.

Defense may begin a war immediately after the prior war has finished.

Methods of Destruction:
Simple PvP: Hack and slash and shoot. Classic stuff.
Bucketeering: Buckets are allowed as a form of combat.
Looting: Opening chests and looting/ raiding them from your opponent's realm is allowed. Of course, if this isn't outlined as a method of destruction, you will be banned for doing so. Don't say "Oh, I didn't know it wasn't one of our MoD's!" Because it's your job to know. Both realms must enable visitors in this MoD.
Destruction: Breaking of blocks is allowed. Both realms are required to go public during this MoD. If you switch to private at any time during the war, you automatically surrender and must pay the spoils of war.

Code of Conduct:
Note: Codes of Conduct only apply to Simple PvP. For example, FTE doesn't signify that you are free to bucketeer in one of the realms at war. It only goes as far as allowing Simple PvP.
Wilderness Only: Conflict is only allowed to occur in the Wilderness. This doesn't correspond with MoD's such as Destruction or Looting.
Free to Engage (FTE): Conflict may occur anywhere. This doesn't correspond with MoD's.

Other Important Designated Officials:
Lieutenant Commander: Assists the general in warmaking. Has no contractual powers.
Ambassador: May request alterations in the war contract. Agreement with any single other Ambassador or General from the enemy realm confirms the alteration.


Changing the Contract:
Realm Generals on either side may request to change details of the contract (most commonly, the MoD). They will reply to their original thread that began the war with changes made marked in blue.

Inability to pay the Spoils of War:
If a realm finds itself unable to pay the Spoils of War, a few things must occur. First, the realm in debt is unable to begin any wars (but may still be attacked) and must continue to pay off the enemy realm until everything is accounted for. It is Imperative, whether paying off the debt later on or paying everything up front, that both realms acknowledge payment of the spoils of war.
If the realm cannot pay off the spoils of war within 7 days time, it is required to set itself as a public realm (too harsh?) until the debt is paid off at which point they may revert to their original status. For roleplayers: this penalty simulates the realm's inability to afford security measures.

Other ideas
It may be a good idea to force realms in war to go public, as so that they are no longer safe havens and can be looted and must be protected by the armies of that realm. Realism? You bet.

Assassination:
An idea is that if the designated general of either side is killed in combat (with video / visual proof), that side surrenders the war. This keeps generals realistically out of combat. Again, just a thought.

Alliance Contracts:
Alliances can be formed between realms of any size. First off, the Alliance itself must be created. To do so, post a thread titled, "Creation of the Alliance: [Alliance Name]"

To do so, in the Wars section just as you would with a war contract, post an Alliance Contract Request [Requested Realm's Name]. During an alliance, the grouped realms cannot declare war on each other. If they wish to do so, they must first reply in their Alliance Contract Request thread notifying of the dissolution of the alliance. Confirmation of the dissolution, or a 24 hour stasis period will remove you from the alliance.

Here are the details of said contract:
In Request of Alliance of (Realm Name):
Your Realm Name:
Name of the Alliance (if any):
Strength of Alliance:
Duration:

Strength of Alliance:
This section follows a specific code, here are the possible options:
1st Degree: Both realms have declared peace with each other. No other conditions take effect, this simply means that war cannot occur between the two realms until a formal dissolution of the alliance is made.
2nd Degree: Both realms have declared peace. Trade is conducted regularly between the realms, and supplies may be sent to aid the other in a war without actually participating in the war.
3rd Degree: Both realms have declared peace. Trade is conducted regularly, and any war that is declared on any realm in the alliance means that every other realm participates in this war.

If you wish to join an already existing alliance:
Just post the same thing. However, address the alliance request to the entirety of the alliance, not just one realm.

Below is the Realm War System outlined in detail. Last Updated: 3/1/2011

There are two types of war:
[War] Conflict: This is the lesser of two engagements. In this style of war, the battling sides can enter each others' realms and fight each other anywhere, but conditions such as /realm private or /realm explosives is respected.
[War] Destruction: In this style of war, the battling sides ignore each others' realm conditions and can fight anywhere. This mode can only be toggled after 48 hours of [War] Conflict has occurred.

[New] War Points (For Lack of a more Clever Title...):
After a war has ended, War Points are awarded for both sides. However, certain factors affect how many of these WP you earn (charts pictured below).

If you surrender on either the aggressor or defender side, 75% of the WP you'd originally earn are deducted. Additionally, if the war is a [War] Conflict, you gain 10% more WP. If it is [War] Destruction, you gain 30% more WP. (I'm aware that these are the only two possible war types).

Although this makes wars seem more like an arcade game, they do provide some incentive to create wars & have some excitement. Having war points based off of kill ratios also increase the "realm commander in chief"'s concern for keeping his soldiers alive by providing sufficient rations and wargear to survive a battle. Training may even be instilled in the realm members in order to make it possible to "farm" war points.

These are some effects that occur regardless of whether or not you are in a war:
-Your realm member's names in real-game are presented in blue.
-Members in your alliance have names in green (your realm remains blue).

How often can we go to war?
If you suffer a defeat in a war, you must wait 24 hours before you can start another one. Other realms cannot start a war with you during this time.

If you achieve victory, you must wait 1 hour (representing your soldiers re-mobilizing for another attack) before you can start another war. Other realms cannot start a war with you during this time. If you wage war against a realm you have waged war against in the past 24 hours, your WP earned is reduced by 50%. This occurs after every war, so third time you would be reduced by 75%, fourth time 87.5%, and so on.

If you surrender to an enemy realm, you may not be engaged in or be the starter of a war for 24 hours. Yes, you can repeatedly surrender after every 24 hour period is up.

What are the effects that occur during a war?
During a war, enemy player's names (not in chat, in real game) are red. During a war, your realm members ignore your enemy's realm condition for /realm visitors, but all other conditions are respected (in a Conflict). Additionally, the "/realm unity" condition is set to =yes, meaning that you cannot harm members that are in your realm. This is locked in the =yes position until the war is resolved.

What are War Points used for?
WP can be used for one of two things. First, they act as a sort of prestige system. WP is an added column to the Realm Rankings. The more WP you have, the higher your rank.

Second, WP can be spent to go into expanding your realm. For example, if you have 1000WP, you can type, "/realm wpspend <number of points>" and it will spend the input number of WP to expand the realm. 1WP counts as one block. This is a value that is very open to change.

How can my realm go to war?
There are two sets of conditions, and I'm deciding on which one works better.
Conditions A: Your realm must have > or = 5 members as well as being > or = 100x100. This works well because it requires for your realm to have been worked on seriously / have a decent sized population in order to be eligible.
Conditions B: Your realm must be involved in an alliance in order to wage / be the receiver of a war. This works well because it requires cooperation amongst realms & organization before wars can happen, therefore making wars much more organized.

Once these conditions are met, you may start a war with a realm by typing "/realm war <intended enemy realmname>". Both sides will be notified that a war has commenced. 30 minutes after it is declared, the effects of war are activated. Players involved in a war will be notified of it and with who it is against every time they log on.

Typing "/war details" will display details of every ongoing war your realm is a part of. For example, say you're Realm A and at war with Realms B, C, and D. Details would be presented:

-You are at war with <Realm B>. X Kills and Y deaths.
-You are at war with <Realm C>. Z Kills and A deaths.
-You are at war with <Realm D>. B Kills and C deaths.

How does a war end?
A war can end in a multitude of ways. First, typing "/war surrender <enemy realm name>" will cause your realm to surrender to the typed enemy realm. If you are at war with multiple realms in the same alliance and surrender to one of them, you surrender to all of them. If you are one realm within an alliance that surrenders to the enemy, the entire alliance surrenders (unless we could somehow work around this... too complicated though). This will, as listed above, penalize you 75% of the WP you would have originally earned, but will save your enemies from farming up WP like crazy. Enemies cannot turn down a /surrender; it is out of their power.

If a war has seen over 100 accumlated kills and the ratio is at least 8:1, a slaughter rule goes into effect and the weaker side automatically surrenders.

What is an alliance?
It's a union of realms that is used during times of war as an organized alliance against the enemy. These can also often deter enemies from waging war against you, as they may not want to upset your allies as well.

How do I create an alliance?
Typing "/realm alliance <realm you want to ally>" will send a request to that realm. A realm leader has 24 hours to respond, or the request is dissolved. Typing "/realm alliance <realm that requested the alliance" will confirm the request, otherwise wait it out until it expires. Effects take place immediately.

In order for you to be able to create an alliance, though, your realm must be at least 50x50 and you must have at least 3 members. This goes the same with the requested realm you want to ally.

If you try to ally a realm that is already in an alliance, the same process still applies. Only difference is that you will afterwards be joined by the other realms in the alliance.

What if I wage war on one realm in an alliance?
Then, as mentioned above, you wage war on all of the realms in that alliance.

What are the effects of an alliance?
Any players of any realm that is under your alliance will have their real-game names appear in green, not including your realm members whose names appear in blue. /realm unity is set to =yes by default, but this can be changed. The change has a 30 minute delay.

If you wish to cancel an alliance, you can type "/realm alliance leave" and you will leave the alliance. There is a 30 minute delay with this action.


What commands can I use during/ out of a war?
"/realm unity" Will toggle friendly fire with players in your realm.
"/wp view" Will display how many War Points your realm is in possession of.
"/wp spend <number of points>" Will spend War Points to add block count to your realm.
"/realm war <intended enemy realm>" Will wage war on the input realm. 30 minute delay.
"/war details" Will display the realms you are at war with (if any) as well as the kill & death count.
"/realm alliance <realm you want to ally>" Will request an alliance with the input realm. Dissolves in 24 hours. Requires response from 1 realm leader.
"/realm alliance <realm that requested the alliance>" Responds to an alliance request with confirmation.
"/realm alliance leave" Has your realm leave the alliance.
"/war surrender <enemy realm name>" Surrenders to the input enemy realm.

Ideas
Maybe have War Points tradeable so that players are willing to trade these for something ingame.
Attachments
Red means you answer no, Green means yes.
Red means you answer no, Green means yes.
War Contract Flochart.jpg (59.77 KiB) Viewed 4552 times
Last edited by panthers17nfl on Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:07 pm, edited 8 times in total.
User avatar
By Cogohst
#2105
I completely agree with this thread. It gives structure to the rather messy PVP sytem.
User avatar
By Cogohst
#2106
I HAD to have the 2000th post, but i do support the idea
By panthers17nfl
#2108
Cogohst wrote:I HAD to have the 2000th post, but i do support the idea
Haha awesome, glad to hear it.

Also, you're not snagging 2011th post from me. or 2012th.
User avatar
By Cogohst
#2109
panthers17nfl wrote:
Cogohst wrote:I HAD to have the 2000th post, but i do support the idea
Haha awesome, glad to hear it.

Also, you're not snagging 2011th post from me. or 2012th.
I'm tempted to spam this topic just to beat you...
By panthers17nfl
#2110
Cogohst wrote:
panthers17nfl wrote:
Cogohst wrote:I HAD to have the 2000th post, but i do support the idea
Haha awesome, glad to hear it.

Also, you're not snagging 2011th post from me. or 2012th.
I'm tempted to spam this topic just to beat you...
Oh really you think you could win just continually replying to this?
By boylan00013
#2114
The only things I don't like is that fact that if I go to war with someone who is already at war with someone else that someone else become your allies, I personal would like the choice I may hate the two realm for what ever reason and just be going to war because there both weak and just picking on the strong so the two are very weak.

also I would like to be able to go to war with both of them at the same time, I wait till both are almost finish and than give the realm winning hell and turn around and get the other two before they can recover :lol: :twisted:
By Didag
#2118
Can't wait to try it out :D... and i got the 2012th post XD
By Seuter
#2122
BEST.... IDEA.... EVER!!!

I would add that during a war both there should be three modes that need to be agreed on: Battlefield Mode (Only can fight in Wilderness or if the realms are public, in the public parts. Private is kept out in this mode). Incursion Mode (Nowhere is safe. Enemies as well as allies can get into private realm but cant destroy anything). And finally, "WAR MODE" (Nothing is sacred, griefing is allowed!).

Obviously, everyone in their right mind would chose one of the former options, unless......

Each one should have a reward granted at the end... I think that each reward should be better than the safer mode, with the reward for winning War Mode being access to the other team's realm for four days (Like a conquering emperor) without griefing access once the war is done.
User avatar
By cerevox
#2130
Dislike the alliance system as stated. Alliances should be voluntary, not forced.

Also there should be some way to opt out of any wars, but it should come with a penalty, a severe penalty. Or go Swiss style and require walls to the sky to claim neutrality.

When realms are at war, members of the opposing realms should be able to enter your realm and break a limited number of blocks. Not enough to grief the realm to bits(that should be left to tnt cannons) but enough to break into houses and loot stuff. Whats a war without spoils?
long long title how many chars? lets see 123 ok more? yes 60

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