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#185827
In the 90's autofire joysticks were a massive thing for shoot-em-ups.
Auto fire gamepads exist and you could quite easily rebind the action to that. Would this be classed as botting too?

FYI I've had one of these farms since they were introduced in plain sight. I don't use it as I find actual fishing more fun *shudders*
#185836
Bu1ld0g wrote:Would this be classed as botting too?
If your character is interacting with things in-game (ie not just standing still / in a minecart) but you are not physically in control of your character at the time, are away from keyboard and do not respond to Staff messages - then yes, you could expect to be banned. Call it botting if you like - the critical thing is that you are not in control of your character despite your character interacting within the game.
Bu1ld0g wrote:FYI I've had one of these farms since they were introduced in plain sight. I don't use it as I find actual fishing more fun *shudders*
Nothing wrong with having the farm, at all. If you want to sit there using the farm while watching YouTube or something, go for it. But I see your point re actual fishing being more enjoyable :D
#185838
If I can make a suggestion. I'm an old school MUDder and, since MUDs are completely text-based, it's easy for scripts to be set up to automate playing and on most MUDs this is frowned upon. The particular MUD I've been playing on for the last 15 years or so (3-Kingdoms :))had very simple rules for if something was considered botting. If your client can, without player input, attack a new mob then it's botting. Clever triggers or scripts or creative use of mudside commands (akin to clever constructions in Minecraft) can be used to automate certain things, but the hard line was you couldn't attack a new mob.

Maybe a similar rule can be applied here. If you can, without player input, perform tasks that normally require player input and gain items or experience, it's botting. Since it was hard to tell whether the human or the client was typing the new kill command, on 3k, the general rule was you had to be able to reply to a tell, emote, or chat from a wizard (Staff) within a reasonable amount of time to not be considered botting.

Since drop/lava farms don't normally require player input to collect items, they wouldn't fall under botting to just stand there but having a script that made you move every few minutes to keep from idling out (do we idle out?) would be as you normally need player input to move.

For the fishing farm example, standing there and holding right-click wouldn't be considered botting since there is player input but taping down or otherwise automating the right-click would be because you normally can't right click without standing there. If you get spotted at a farm like that and Staff sends you a tell or calls you out in chat and you don't answer, you're toast.

TL;DR: If your computer is sending input automatically without you having to be there and paying attention, it would be considered botting.
#185840
This is obviously a very complex issue, and it's kind of confusing where the line is drawn. Auto-clickers are obviously not allowed, and holding down the mouse yourself while playing the game is, but what about, for instance, keeping the game open and holding the mouse button down with your hand while not paying attention to the game (something I've done, watching TV while grinding skellies)? What if my fingers hurt from holding down the mouse button, so I pick up an object and, holding it in my hand, use it to hold down the mouse button instead, still not watching the game? What if I just leave it there to hold down the button itself, staying next to the computer but not watching it—or, conversely, leave the object holding down the mouse on its own, but keep my attention on the game?

I think the big issue here is "where is the line"? That's something that we should try to figure out as clearly as we can.
#185844
dlgn wrote:I think the big issue here is "where is the line"? That's something that we should try to figure out as clearly as we can.
I thought the line was drawn at no assistance from external programs, mods, or exploits. Clean and simple. Apparently the unwritten rules are much more ludicrous than that.
botting

Automated gameplay. Generally by using programs to play games for you.
bot

1. Simple computer program used to perform highly repetitive operations, e.g. trawling websites to collect email addresses.

2. Computer program run concurrently with an online game to give the player an unfair advantage. Bots may alter the game environment, boost the abilities of the player's character or hinder opponents. Writing bots requires a great deal of skill; using them almost none.
#185845
dlgn wrote:What if my fingers hurt from holding down the mouse button, so I pick up an object and, holding it in my hand, use it to hold down the mouse button instead, still not watching the game? What if I just leave it there to hold down the button itself, staying next to the computer but not watching it—or, conversely, leave the object holding down the mouse on its own, but keep my attention on the game?
If you're near the computer, you will at least notice in your peripheral vision the kick screen.
THe action to take would be to join and explain the situation to the staff who kicked you.

Also, if you have an object on the mouse and a staff messages you while you're watching, for goodness' sake, hit 'T' and just explain what you're doing!

You won't encounter problems as long as you check back on your screen regularly enough- it's the people who leave these running, say, all night and day on an alt that staff don't want. So if staff message you, just message back and it's not illegal. The problem is machines that don't even have the player monitoring it or anything- as long as you're there, might as well rest your finger. Just keep an eye out.

Sometimes in singleplayer to grind gravel into flint I leave my player facing down with heavy objects on both mouse buttons and spacebar. I don't do this in online games because obviously normally block placement/digging in such a manner requires player input, and also I would most likely get kicked/banned on an accusation of hacking of some type or using a bot. it falls into a matter of whether you're at least nearby and can explain yourself to staff. Now, sometimes I leave that system running while I'm nearby watching something else, but I make sure to have one eye on chat the whole time. I could just as easily set my fingers there and still be watching something else. I believe it falls into whether you are/would be curently able to perform the action.
Hence leaving this running while you sleep, or eat, or whatever is unacceptable. You have to be nearby to field questions and to explain the procedure to any curious staff members.

Just some random rant I went on while sitting here talking.
-Meow

EDIT:
As for what sharp said:

Leaving this running is an exploit of sorts. You exploit the setup of the game to gain an advantage- you are able to fish at times when most others could not or would not- leaving this running, say, while asleep or in the restroom is pretty much equivalent to leaving an autoclicker on all night. It gains the same desired function, and gives you an advantage over people who play the game as it is meant to be played.
#185847
Sharp_Enderman wrote:I thought the line was drawn at no assistance from external programs, mods, or exploits. Clean and simple. Apparently the unwritten rules are much more ludicrous than that.
Answer me one thing then, if you would be so kind. WHY is the use of external programs or client mods that automate gameplay illegal?
botting

Automated gameplay. Generally by using programs to play games for you.
Change of emphasis ;)
#185850
Ok guys, well... I'm just going to give my opinion here. Minecraft is a game, and if you can't sit around a click a mouse with your finger once every few seconds, there's something seriously wrong.
I know that auto-farms make fishing easier, but come on guys... I thought just playing the game raw was easy enough.
#185851
TeeJayDub wrote:Answer me one thing then, if you would be so kind. WHY is the use of external programs or client mods that automate gameplay illegal?
I'd imagine because they give you an unfair advantage over other players who have to do these same tasks manually.
If this is the point you're trying to make, then it doesn't really help you. Most people have something heavy enough to put on a key. Realistically speaking, you don't have an advantage over anyone with this farm. Anyone can do it without having to install anything. Everything's already there.
This isn't xraying. This isn't duplicating. This is fishing.
TeeJayDub wrote:
botting

Automated gameplay. Generally by using programs to play games for you.
Change of emphasis ;)
Mhm.
bot

1. Simple computer program used to perform highly repetitive operations, e.g. trawling websites to collect email addresses.

2. Computer program run concurrently with an online game to give the player an unfair advantage. Bots may alter the game environment, boost the abilities of the player's character or hinder opponents. Writing bots requires a great deal of skill; using them almost none.
The whole picture. :]
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