[Sharp_Enderman]

So amongst some chit-chat I mentioned AFK fishing farms. TeeJay promptly insisted that, although every aspect of the machine and input is completely legitimate, it's bannable because it takes an activity that usually requires active player input and turns it into an AFKable farm.
I'm here to see if this design, utilizing completely legitimate methods, is bannable. If so, I really have to ask. Why is it? New mechanics come along. People find ways to use these new, legitimate mechanics. It'd be like making iron or gold farms bannable because those activities used to require active input to get those items.
At the time of this post, I do have this design in my base, however it's blocked off until things are resolved. I apologize if it's bannable, but I looked at that design and common sense said, and still says, that it should be fine. I didn't bother to check with staff because, like I mentioned earlier, it'd be like having to ask if it was bannable to build an iron or gold farm. It'd just be silly.
Any thoughts or opinions are welcome, especially from staff. If, after due logical process, such legitimate farms remain against the rules, I shall remove mine with much distaste.

[The-Jack-DeCk]

So TeeJayDub, proud owner of an extremely industrial gold farm, said that AFK farming materials is bannable because there is an alternative which requires more active player input?

It seems as if I am required to get the popcorn out for this one.

[Tee]

The machine is entirely legitimate, and use of the machine with the player active and at keyboard is of course permitted.

Using any kind of method, whether software-based or physical (eg taping the right mouse button down) to continue casting the fishing rod while you are AFK is not permitted.

Refer MineRealm's past history:

http://minerealm.com/community/viewtopi ... =20&t=5440
http://minerealm.com/community/viewtopi ... =20&t=5437
http://minerealm.com/community/viewtopi ... =20&t=5433
http://minerealm.com/community/viewtopi ... =20&t=5434
http://minerealm.com/community/viewtopi ... =20&t=6531

EDIT: Jack ... AFK farms that give loot drops using fall damage or similar are permitted because no player input is required for that - it is completely within the game mechanics. All that is required is for the chunks to be loaded. Sharp's fishing farm does nothing if the chunks are loaded - it works ONLY if the player is casting their fishing rod, which requires manual input. Circumventing that manual input is the issue.

[Sharp_Enderman]

No external programs are used. No mods are used. No glitches are used. Also known as not cheating. Banning someone for not cheating is entirely ridiculous. All of those threads you linked seem to be related to mods or external programs. Not in the same ballpark. Not at all.

[OrigamiElephant]

The AFK fish farm amounts to botting. Whether analog or digital, you are using a proxy to complete an action.

However, I have no problem if someone wants to tape down their mouse and go to bed. This isn't even that slippery a slope. We aren't talking about a very complex action. I say we amend the rules to allow AFK farms that require an input (such as automatic tree farms) to no longer be a bannable offense.

[Rokkrwolf]

The AFK fish farm amounts to botting. Whether analog or digital, you are using a proxy to complete an action.

However, I have no problem if someone wants to tape down their mouse and go to bed. This isn't even that slippery a slope. We aren't talking about a very complex action. I say we amend the rules to allow AFK farms that require an input (such as automatic tree farms) to no longer be a bannable offense.

Whether this is legal or illegal it comes down to really one thing. How can staff discern whether you just taped down your mouse or using third party programs/hacks? It causes issues from a player's point of view as well, I can't think of anything short of video taping your mouse to prove your afk farm is "legitimate".

As ori said it is still botting no matter how you look at it hence why it is against the rules. As far as the other "farms" are concerned dropping mobs to kill them or afking for a bit for them to build up and then killing them is perfectly legal. By taping down your mouse/hacking/using third party programs you are therefore are not actually devoting time and effort that the other players do.

[Sharp_Enderman]

How can staff discern whether you just taped down your mouse or using third party programs/hacks? It causes issues from a player's point of view as well, I can't think of anything short of video taping your mouse to prove your afk farm is "legitimate".

How can staff tell that players are getting diamonds legitimately and not just being really smart with their xray? How can staff tell that players are finding dungeons legitimately and not just being smart with their cave finders? To continue progressively getting more and more silly, how can staff tell that players are even digging holes and not just using bots?
Let fly the conspiracy theories.

[dlgn]

The difference, though, is that hacks are not universal, so they give an advantage to players to have them. On the other hand, any player can simply drop something on their mouse and let it do its thing. So I don't see how it could be compared to a hack, although I can see how it might be considered an exploit.

[Rokkrwolf]

How can staff discern whether you just taped down your mouse or using third party programs/hacks? It causes issues from a player's point of view as well, I can't think of anything short of video taping your mouse to prove your afk farm is "legitimate".

How can staff tell that players are getting diamonds legitimately and not just being really smart with their xray? How can staff tell that players are finding dungeons legitimately and not just being smart with their cave finders? To continue progressively getting more and more silly, how can staff tell that players are even digging holes and not just using bots?
Let fly the conspiracy theories.

Simple most players aren't smart. I keed. But really experience is key with staff we know how to differ xray ect from normal behavior. If it is questionable it is passed too those who know more about it and more details to track it. And really holes? There's a giant difference when you are constantly moving and standing there hitting the same spot. Either way if you are constantly hitting the same spot and staff try to contact you/kick you and get no response expect a ban.

The difference, though, is that hacks are not universal, so they give an advantage to players to have them. On the other hand, any player can simply drop something on their mouse and let it do its thing. So I don't see how it could be compared to a hack, although I can see how it might be considered an exploit.

Ehhhhh, technically both scenarios hacks and taping down a mouse are universal. So that's kinda a moot point.

[Sharp_Enderman]

No external programs are used. No mods are used. No glitches are used. Also known as not cheating. Banning someone for not cheating is entirely ridiculous.

Tell me, Rokkr. Can you honestly refute any of that? (That's rhetorical.)
Heavy objects≠botting.

Ehhhhh, technically both scenarios hacks and taping down a mouse are universal. So that's kinda a moot point.

I actually agree with that. My wonderful list of silly conspiracies was to prove that there's some inherent level of trust, no matter how small, between the staff and the community.
Just because a farm can be ran AFK with a heavy object or with an external program doesn't mean that the farm is immediately labeled as illegitimate because someone could be using the latter method.