[cerevox]

On the know it when i see it, you missed my point totally. Yes, its a minecraft server. With people on it from all over the world. What you consider harassment is not what someone else considers harassment. The moment that more than one person is interpreting that, you will have as many different views as you do people. Its vague and cryptic and not useful at all.

4.1 is even worse. Its starts out saying "Don't swear' and then a line laters its saying "Only swear in certain situations". What are those situations you might ask? Well, there is not defined list, just a vague and cryptic "swearing lightly at the outcome of an occurrence" is allowed. 'Outcome of an occurrence', does that phrase actually exclude anything, ever? And lightly? What words are light swearing and what is heavy? Or is it the number of swear words used? Or perhaps some combination of the two?

On the flip side, the rules are trading are exact and specfic. Almost so exact as to be silly. I don't think they will work, but i do like them. There is no question on how the trading rules work. The other additions, 4.1 and 8.1, and so vague as to be useless. They don't seem to add anything that wasn't there already except for some uncertainty and reliance on a very narrow culture and upbringing to determine what is and is not acceptable.

tl;dr: Trade rules are good, 4.1 and 8.1 additions are just cryptic gibberish.

[panthers17nfl]

If there is some culture 3,000 miles away from me that celebrates the tradition of insulting each other's mothers to no end, then I am mistaken as to what the general agreement of what harassment is. But I am hoping that the community retains enough intelligence to be able to effectively judge what harassment entails. I don't know how else I could have described it. We aren't dealing with rural tribesmen, eskimos, or other alien cultures. We are dealing with people who all have access to a computer, minecraft, the internet, and a grasp of the English language (if the latter is missing, then we just have a lack of communication, and as such, harassment with that player isn't something to deal with anyway).

And if you truly have difficulty understanding 4.1, then I guess you could define heavy swearing as: F**k, sh*t, c*nt, ni**er, etc. That caliber. Light swearing could be: damn, hell, piss, crap, suck(s), etc. Notice that I didn't have to censor those words when I told you them either.

[cerevox]

Alright, i follow. So basically your saying you don't care about any other culture, we are going to follow yours or be banned. Alright, im cool with that. I prefer tyranny to ambiguity any day.

And my point wasn't that I didn't understand them. I know what you meant. But considering the sort of folks who wander into minerealm, i am pretty sure that many of them would have trouble understanding a simple "Don't swear", much less anything more complex.

As it is now, your rules are only going to be understandable by people who have been on minerealm for a while. Although i suppose that doesn't matter since most newbs are not likley to come to forums to read the rules anyway.

Well, whatever, my questions are answered. Im happy.

[panthers17nfl]

Release Notes July 17th, 2011:

-Added a disclaimer to the beginning of the book
-Updated the (6.5) Definition
-Added (6.9) Acquisition of Land
-Updated the (7.5) Definition
-Added (7.6) Circumvention of Rules
-Added (7.7) Ask Before You Act
-Added (7.8) Obliviousness to the Rules
-Added (7.9) False Informing of the Rules

Additionally, inb4 obnoxious abuse of (7.7).

[cerevox]

Well, its late, so i won't start picking the numerous loopholes and contradictions till ive slept, but something struck me about one of the new sections, 7.6 to be exact.

Circumvention of Rules (7.6):This case applies in special instances wherein one attempts to argue or manipulate the phrasing of the rules in a way that is not their intended meaning. Questions about their "intended meaning?" See (7.7). Confused as to why attempting to breach (7.6) won't work? See (7.5).

When this case applies.....what? You tell us when something is this case, but you don't tell us what that means. What happens when it is this case? Beyond that, there is another contradiction here. I will do this step by step so i can exactly locate where i am wrong after you correct me.

1. The rules are written out so that everyone can see and understand them.
2. You did not write any rules you know to be incorrect or false.
3. Following from 2, the rules are written as you intend them to be read.
4. Following from 3, Reading the rules as written will always be as they were intended to be read.
5. This case(7.6) applies when the rules are read in a way not intended.
6. Following from 4 and 5, it is not possible for case(7.6) to ever occur.

So there you have it, 7.6 can never actually happen, according to rule 7.6.



Also, circumvention would be going around the rules or avoiding them. Corruption would be twisting them to something else.



EDIT: Alright, looking at the rules after some sleep. They are so byzantine and convoluted that it is just not worth picking at them any more. They are so detailed and intricate that no one except maybe a handful of forum regulars will ever be able to decipher them. They are useless to more than 95% of the server. I might enjoy making fun, but beating dead horses isn't my thing.

[Lightbulbs]

. Should a player have a texture pack that causes any in-game art file that would otherwise be visible be invisible (aka: dirt blocks, leaves, etc.)

It's funny that in your examples you manage to name one of the three blocks that actually have transparent sections in the default textures.

[Kress_91]

Panthers has a way of turning terribly simple things into extravagantly complex systems that tend to break common folks' wills to read when they attempt to do so with his grand, mind boggling works of fact, fiction, mathematics, and somewhat finely written sentences.

tl;dr Realm Wars, Shop Economics, and The Book of Rules are so blasted complex they become dumb.

[Lightbulbs]

tl;dr Realm Wars, Shop Economics, and The Book of Rules are so blasted complex they become dumb.

Realm wars became complex because people (Novasbiscuit) exploited them as a means of extortion and proceeded to make roughly 200 diamonds just by threatening people with war.

Shop economics is an interesting thing where nobody will ever actually read it, but everyone says they want something just like it later on. The issue here isn't Panthers, but the brown-nosing douches that tell him everything he does it great and relevant when it's not.

The Book of Rules is complex because people (Myself and Celestis) see it only as something that gets in the way of taking advantage of stupid people (Not naming anyone out of respect), so we try to find any loophole in it that allows a person to make a 12 year old ginger kid cry IRL without being bannable. Because Panthers believes that through the sheer force of words he can stop the collective wills of the people against Cats, he continues adding rules like tumors to the book of rules, until eventually we get this huge tumorous mass that can be boiled down into "Everything is bannable, but only when we feel like enforcing"

[panthers17nfl]

The only one of you that seems to be attempting to make decent conversation is, oddly enough, Cerevox:

Actually, rules can be interpreted in an incorrect fashion. In that event, we tell you to ask us before attempting to do something that may fringe the rules.

The issue arises first at your #4: "Following from 3, Reading the rules as written will always be as they were intended to be read." We have had instances in the past where one would try to argue a loophole they believe to have found due to the phrasing of a rule. This would be attempting to circumvent that rule.

The only thing you said that is true is the logic flaw in (7.6), which is: (7.6) just states what (7.6) is, and does not state the punishment for performing (7.6). So it's like I am saying a "don't do this" without saying the "or else", so yes, thanks for catching that.

Also, your last paragraph sounds like submission, or the fact that you can't find anything flawed to argue. So I will bid yo adieu on that note.

[cerevox]

Also, your last paragraph sounds like submission, or the fact that you can't find anything flawed to argue. So I will bid yo adieu on that note.

Not exactly. Your rules have become so full of holes and contradictions that it just isn't fun to pick at them anymore. Its like punching holes in Swiss cheese. There just isn't any point. Your rules have become so absurdly complex that they have gone from funny and worth laughing at to almost embarrassing to be seen in the same room with.

I am sorry if this sounds mean to all the handicapped out there, and you can declare it your victory if you want panthers, i don't mind, but i don't hang out with kids who droll on themselves and wear deely-boppers. And that is the point the rule book has reached. It needs to wear an adult diaper just to keep from making a mess of itself.