Minerealm Community Forums

When you die, the person who killed you/ finds your body/ entropy (despawn)...
-takes all your dropped items
-takes all your dropped XP (experience orbs)
--at first glance, you might not care about XP. But XP is very valuable, it gets harder and harder to get to a high level, and these high levels are used for enchanting (I've been playing RC2). I'm sure once enchanting gets added to the server, losing a lot of XP will be just as painful as losing a lot of diamonds/ other rares.

Based on this, the game does, and is designed to, make you lose any valuables you have on you if you die. Because of the nature and dynamics of this server, "Realm Credits" are also very important and valuable commodities. That is why I think that we should implement a fair and reasonable way for people to lose some fair amount of Realm Credits when they die. These lost credits should be able to be "taken" by any player including PVP opponents who comes to their death site (like other valuables), or can be recovered by the player if they return to the place of their death. Currently, if you think about "Realm Credits" as valuables just like items, XP, I'm sure you will agree that they are on the same "scale" of valuables. And thus it is only fair to be treated the same, to have risk and reward for bad/ smart decisions. Don't worry this doesn't mean you will lose all your Realm Credits if you die, it is up to the Admins/ community to create a fair balance, and the facilitation of discussion of this topic is the goal of this post.

When I think, "what would be a fair amount of Realm Credits to lose when you die, and how would this work?". To answer this question let us compare Realm Credits to other valuables in the game, such as any desirable items, and XP.
-can be acquired in the wild through hard work/ the course of the game
-you can lose them all if you die while having them with you
-anyone who kills you can keep whatever you had on you
-you don't lose any if you die without any in your possession
-you can go back to where you died, and pick them up
-they can be deposited to a safe storage in a safe area, such as in a chest/ used to enchant
-they can be withdrawn from the safe area when needed
-they can be given to/ received from other players, but are still risky until stored

So basically, valuables can be lost until they are properly and safely stored. Valuables are not stored automatically as they are obtained, instead it happens in a safe, trusted area. Once valuables are put into a safe place, nothing will happen to them.

And so, based on these ideas, I recommend each player would have two totals of "Realm Credits", a "Safe Total", and a "On Their Person Total". We can call the total that is "On Their Person" their "Wallet", and the amount that is safe "Savings". Based on the properties of valuable items...
-any Realm Credits earned through mining/ from other players (a trade) should go into your "Wallet"
-if you walk around with Realm Credits in your "Wallet", and you die, they are "dropped" just like any other valuables. how to code?
-anyone who kills you should be able to keep any Realm Credits you had with you in your "Wallet" how to code?
-any Realm Credits you deposited to your savings stay safe, even if you die
-whoever is the first person to return to the scene of your death should get whatever Realm Credits you lost from your "Wallet" how to code?
-transferring your Realm Credits between your "Wallet" and "Savings" should only be done from a reasonable location how to code?
-you can only use Realm Credits that you currently have with you in your "Wallet".

The real questions basically come down to "how to keep track of Realm Credits in the 3d space of the game" and "What counts as a safe area". Please discuss what you think would be fair and reasonable ways of solving this problem. Below are my own personal ideas:

-what counts as a safe area? Somewhere near your /home location, or within a realm that you own. This would need to be modified to prevent abuse, such as only being able to withdraw from a realm that you have owned for more than X days if it was recently traded to you for less than X RC from another player. This would prevent people from swapping realms to bypass carrying RC in their wallet.
-how to keep track? From the technical side, the server could store a new type of data, called "dropped RC". Anyone who dies would drop their RC from their wallet at their death location. All dropped RC would "delete" after some set time after being in a loaded chunk, just like items that disappear over time. (2 hours in a loaded chunk? 3?5?10?12?)
--There could be some new command that you could type and it would tell you if there is any dropped RC within a SET (5?10?15?__?) block radius of your location. If there is, the function would tell you the coordinates of the dropped RC, as well as how much time till they despawn.
--If you die, you are informed that you can still get your [number that you lost] RC back if you are the first to get there
--After death, there could be a function to tell you if your dropped wallet is still there or not, so you can chose if you want to go for the walk, or no. Also could display if it is in a loaded chunk, and if so, how much time is remaining till it "despawns"
--If you walk within a SET (2?3?) block radius of the dropped RC, you will automatically "pick it up", and you will get a message saying "picked up 234 Realm Credits from a dropped wallet". This total will go to your wallet.
--If you receive money form a player, it could say "Player has sent you 234 Credits, they have been added to your wallet". Players could get an alert every time they mine past a multiple of some number like 500, reminding them to put their Credits to the safety of their Savings. This could be enabled/ disabled with a command.
--Also, this is more Vanilla, Vanilla SMP!

Interesting idea... I kind of like it. The only problem is that it seems there won't actually be much danger of losing tons of credits (or even a few credits) in most situations. As long as players remember to bank their credits before leaving home for the wilderness (or, worse yet, the Nether), they will not lose anything as a result. However, I can think of a few possible uses for such a system:

1) Duels. Two players could agree to place a certain number of credits in their wallets, then fight to the death--the winner receives the loser's realm credits in addition to whatever armor or weapons were being carried. In order to prevent cheating, perhaps the /online [PlayerName] command could show wallet contents for any player along with the usual info (similarly to how /online [YourOwnName] shows your total credit count now); if you don't want people to know how many credits you have, you can place them in storage.

2) The Nether. If some minimum number of credits (in your wallet) was necessary to enter the Nether (I mean each time you want to enter the Nether, not only the first time), the stakes of Nether PvP would be raised a bit, since players would lose no less than, say, 500 credits upon dying in the Nether while they stand to gain at least that amount each time they successfully kill a player in the Nether. This would also implement a certain form of the minimum requirement to enter the Nether that is being discussed in this thread.

I might have voted, but your options are so obviously scewed to your point of view that the entire post becomes worthless.

In any case, dropping creds in pvp would be counter productive. The primary use of credits is as a medium to secure private build rights. As pvp will soon be coming to all public areas, this would effectively alienate all new players that come to the server.

Bad idea is bad.

Edit - And don't even try to argue that the only reason I don't want this is because it would hurt me. I ate my share of noobs before I realized the only real challenge was using no armor and a stone sword.

Edit 2 - For further reasons to reject this idea, please refer to this thread - http://minerealm.com/community/viewtopi ... =10&t=3958. (It's the first time he posted this idea.)

Prodigy9 wrote:1) Duels. Two players could agree to place a certain number of credits in their wallets, then fight to the death--the winner receives the loser's realm credits in addition to whatever armor or weapons were being carried. In order to prevent cheating, perhaps the /online [PlayerName] command could show wallet contents for any player along with the usual info (similarly to how /online [YourOwnName] shows your total credit count now); if you don't want people to know how many credits you have, you can place them in storage.

2) The Nether. If some minimum number of credits (in your wallet) was necessary to enter the Nether (I mean each time you want to enter the Nether, not only the first time), the stakes of Nether PvP would be raised a bit, since players would lose no less than, say, 500 credits upon dying in the Nether while they stand to gain at least that amount each time they successfully kill a player in the Nether. This would also implement a certain form of the minimum requirement to enter the Nether that is being discussed in this thread.

Wow I never thought of these ideas, but I actually really like them both! That would make the Nether PvP super more exciting, dangerous, and would work as a minimum requirement. Very smart idea!

CirJohn wrote:I might have voted, but your options are so obviously scewed to your point of view that the entire post becomes worthless.

What?? I tried to be unbiased in the options, how can you not vote? What do you think I should have changed?

Secondly, I agree it could be an issue with new players. Perhaps there could be some restrictions like it wouldn't apply for your first hour on the server, you could also deposit to savings when you are near /home, etc. Anyways, pvp is pvp, you deserve to lose whatever you chose to go wondering around with. Just like you deserve to lose glowstone you find in the nether, if you are killed before you can bring it to your home.

The fact that random noobs might have problems with it is no reason the "Bad idea is Bad". That is just a potential problem you have brought up, one we can try to think of a reasonable solution to.

Your voting options are derogatory towards opponents of your idea, either making them seem like fools or cowards.

Next time skip the multiple yeas and neys, and just give a simple yes/no.

Edit:

As for depositing creds whe you go home, don't you think that's just what every player would do? All you're doing is adding another complication to an uncomplicated system.

Your idea failed when you posted it a few months back. Why are you even trying to post it again?

CirJohn wrote:Your voting options are derogatory towards opponents of your idea, either making them seem like fools or cowards.

Next time skip the multiple yeas and neys, and just give a simple yes/no.

That is exactly what i did. Did you see "No, no comment". You can vote No, and that is it and to the point. The other No option is just there so we can see how many people voted No just for that reason. Why that reason? Because it is the reason I assumed most people would vote for if they voted No.

physaux wrote:Why that reason? Because it is the reason I assumed most people would vote for if they voted No.

Hence the bias.

No, your 'no for this reason' option is HUGELY biased. It implies that anyone choosing it makes bad decisions that lead to the loss of their stuff, and is too lightweight to be willing to risk their credits.

physaux wrote:

Prodigy9 wrote:*snip*

Wow I never thought of these ideas, but I actually really like them both! That would make the Nether PvP super more exciting, dangerous, and would work as a minimum requirement. Very smart idea!

Thanks

physaux wrote:

CirJohn wrote:I might have voted, but your options are so obviously scewed to your point of view that the entire post becomes worthless.

What?? I tried to be unbiased in the options, how can you not vote? What do you think I should have changed?

The first and third options are skewed pretty badly. The first option is biased in favor of your proposal by assuming that the idea would make the game more like it was "intended" to be. The third option sounds like an attempt to discredit anyone who disagrees with the idea by suggesting that the only reason they oppose it is because they make bad decisions in the game for which they want to avoid any consequences.

I like the idea, but the poll is pretty bad.

CirJohn wrote:

physaux wrote:Why that reason? Because it is the reason I assumed most people would vote for if they voted No.

Hence the bias.

The poll was made by me, clearly a biased player (why else would I take the time to write it and try to promote the idea). I'm not an Admin or someone who has to be super politically correct here, this is just my post sharing an idea.
I know it was biased, that is why I made the second option that was unbiased. Shows how many people pay attention, or are confident in their own reasoning for an answer. Either way you can still add up the No's to get the total No's, the only difference is with my bias you get a little more insight as to why someone chose No, since most likely not everyone who votes will post. To be fair, and not put "words in people's mouths", I added the second No option, which was unbiased. I don't see the problem here.

Yes, parts of the poll, specifically some options, are biased. But there are unbiased yes and no options as well. The other two are just two thoughts I thought most people would agree with, and they clearly have a choice weather to say no for that reason or for their own reason.